watching expired appliances align

Marc, don't you mean that you want a list of movies that you might dvr someday and squeeze into your schedule between repeat viewings of the O.C. and round table discussions about terrorism on PBS?

oh god, i had forgotten that i made the mistake of seeing both matrix sequels AND bubba ho-tep.

"Think elements of "George Washington", "Wide Blue Road" and "Amarcord" and you begin to get the idea of how wonderful this film is."

Who on earth is this sentence written for?

Jamie, the films I referenced are not really that obscure.

George Washington- a recent film.
Amarcord- a well known Fellini film
Wide Blue Road- had a fairly long run at Film Forum within the past couple of years

that's fine, but the percentage of people (even those reading your film writeup) who have seen even two of those films has got to be pretty low. the Cinemania people would be all over it, i guess.

Why not criticize my reference of movies like "McCabe and Mrs. Miller" or "Beautiful People" in other parts of the list? I find it odd that you would pick on these three movies- one of which most people I know have seen (George Washington) another sold out tons of shows at a theater that most folks I know in NYC are well aware of (Wide Blue Road)and the third (Amarcord) is considered one of Fellini's best films of the latter part of his career.

"Cinemania" folks, of course, would know these films, but so would anyone that reads about and goes to a lot of films that aren't at the multiplex. I don't mean to be patronizing on this point, but I'm telling you- those three films are not obscure. Just because you don't know what two of the films are doesn't make them a moot point.

Should I compare them to a Coen Brothers film or Lord of the Rings for no reason other than that people have heard of those movies? Half the movies on my list the balgavy.com readers haven't heard of and will never see anyway so your point makes no sense. If my writing was merely to have people read about movies they have already seen, I wouldn't have even mentioned "Respiro" in the first place. Very very odd line of reasoning, Paquette.

eh, is the point really who's seen what and catering to that? the percentage of people who have seen the majority of dan's list is always going to be low. why is it so taboo to use movies you've seen as reference points? if you're not familiar with a film, just imdb it.

Dan, those movies are obscure. but that's not really the point. i just think that when you're describing something you like (or don't), it's better to use real tangible words and ideas if possible. of course you should write about movies other people haven't seen. that's one of the reasons i like reading your list every year. drawing comparisons is OK, especially if you're using only a single reference point (i.e. one movie), but when you tell your audience to "think elements of x, y, and z" it doesn't convey any information. what elements? and if they're not familiar with your references then it becomes especially pointless.

i understand that you're writing this on the fly and that it's not a dissertation. i didn't mean for this to get out of control - i was just pereplexed when i read it and so i dashed off a quick comment.

Again, I ask you to define obscure. Amarcord was made by one of the most famous directors of all time and won an Oscar for Best Foreign Language Film! How is that obscure? Just because your knowledge of film history is limited and you do not know of a movie does not make it obscure. Am I supposed to compare Respiro to The Postman (it didn't) just because you might have heard of it?

Why don't you try comparing a band like Godspeed You Black Emperor to Top 40 bands of the past ten years just so you don't reference "obsure" bands?

but when you tell your audience to "think elements of x, y, and z" it doesn't convey any information. what elements? and if they're not familiar with your references then it becomes especially pointless.

Sure, I could describe each element of each film I referenced (and maybe I should) and how Respiro reminds me of it, but that wouldn't change your argument that my references are too obscure, would it? I have no problem with your bringing up your thoughts, but they just don't make any sense to me. Hell, even Lawrence and Plumley make sense when they ridicule me. They have different movie tastes than me and like to make fun of mine. Your point is just not clear. Am I too elitist, is that what you are saying? Should I draw up a list of 100 acceptable movies to reference? I just don't understand your point.

You still coming over tonight?

I consider myself pretty damn filmy and I only had a vague glimmer of recognition at Amarcord. I agree with Jamie though. If you had said something like "surrealist elements found it the films of Fellini" or something more describing like that I would be happier. Or if you had referenced "Bring it On." Either way.

But by bringing up the surrealist elements of Fellini brings up a whole lot of baggage that I wasn't trying to bring up. Amarcord is not the typical Fellini film in that regard. Still, I could have listed each element of each film which I did not do.

How's this?

Respiro:
Think elements of the sensitive postman in The Postman, the sassiness of Bring It On, and the tragedy of "Titantic." Does that make everyone happy?

Basically, I think that Jamie is just mad at me for making fun of his "here's hoping he can" comment on his blog.

That makes me very happy. More movies need to be graded based on their sassiness.

Bring it on is a GREAT movie. I had a GREAT time making it, because I used to be a cheerleader.

Dan, think of your audience.

Think elements of middling indie rock of Butterfly Train, the sassiness of Colleen Survivor and the tragedy of Dave Rygalski going off to college and leaving behind Lane Kim.

Is it possible that I've had an effect on Dan's lust for listmaking? Probably none that he would admit. But you should have seen the verbal onslaught he threw my way at O'Connor's a couple years back for this intro to my 2001 movie list:

This is not a top 10 list. Anyone who's tempted to suggest that I'm wimping out by not ranking movies numerically should consider the possibility that I'm actually the courageous one, because I'm daring to buck the embarrassingly American mentality that says you have to quantify everything, even art, because there always has to be a winner and a loser. Yes, I did do a top 10 list last year. I guess I was wimpier back then. Or maybe I was just not as self-righteous.

hey, let's leave butterfly train out of this.

I would have to agree with Jamie. I think you have to keep in mind that this list travels world wide - those of us living south of the Mason Dixon line may not have the opportunity to see some of the NYC artsy fartsy films referenced. "Cinemania" folks here in Maryland would include anyone who can name all four Vacation movies in chronological order.

PS - I'm looking forward to getting together with the "Rotomania" folks this weekend.

On that note, why not try something like:

Think elements of "Alan Wiggins susceptability to the hidden ball trick", "A. Espinoza's fan club base" and "the Mr. Coffeman legacy" and you begin to get the idea of how wonderful this film is.

Jim,

Yes I derided you two years ago for your Anti-American holier than thou attitude. I'm just too lazy to rank every damn thing anymore.

Rob,

Nothing beats a good Coffeeman reference. Why don't you write a list? Perhaps a ranking of the Vacation movies?

it took Dan about 5 years to come aorund on Built to Spill. another 15 years, and I'll have him begging me to burn copies of my Butterfly Train CDs.

and Rob, I still have copy of that Alvarzo Espinoza fan club newsletter around somewhere. still funny after all these years.

Dan, the fact that I acknowledged being "self-righteous" right in my statement should have tipped you off that it was done half-jokingly. Therefore my attitude is not holier than anyone. Okay, now I can put that argument to rest after two years.

On a more current note, Wide Blue Road is an obscure movie by any measure. Regardless of whether you or Jamie were right on any other point you argued in that teenage-hissy-fit exchange, at least acknowledge this one fact. I didn't remember what Wide Blue Road was, and after you and Steve I imagine I'd at least be tied with anyone else you know for the number of movies I see and the frequency of my visits to Film Forum.

I have it from secret sources too afraid to post comments here that "Amarcord" is not obscure. So there! U.S.A.! U.S.A.! Love it or leave it, Jim.

Fine, "Wide Blue Road" is not well known, fine, fine, fine, fine, fine! But, it did play for a month or so at Film Forum in 2001, so you must have missed it, Mr."I go to Film Forum" all the time.

Dan a.k.a. Mr. Prickly, one more comment: I should have mentioned that overall I enjoyed reading your list very much, as always. In fact, your endorsement of Big Fish led me to go see it today. I had some problems with it, and didn't feel that it was quite a return to form, but I definitely got my matinee's worth of entertainment out of it. And I was right there with you in getting choked up at the end. I actually shed about two tears, maybe three. I also had two other choked-up movies for 2003. One was Lord of the Rings, when everyone kneels down to the hobbits at the end. The other I had forgotten about until I started trying to figure out your hidden, secret movie-that-made-you-cry. I saw this movie with Jamie, and was embarrassed to be almost crying because it was just a goofy comedy (though a very good one): The School of Rock.

What problems did you have for Big Fish? Or should we all wait for your list? Why isn't anyone else turning in a list thus far?

We're too busy ridiculing your obscure movie references to make lists of our own.

wow, a trifekta for Spellbound!

If I had Mitch's email address, I'd send him this:
http://www.popcrazy.com/poplog/index.php
Its on the main page of popcrazy right now....

Thanks for the plug, Sarah

Your comments are always so insightful. Come back to the fold, Balgavy. Your energy is being wasted on the WB!

Jim wrote "The perfect casting choice to embody Pekar would unfortunately be impossible now: Peter Boyle at age 40 or 45." Brilliant casting, Jim.

Jim,

You make a valid point about Giamatti not fully capturing Pekar and the smile beneath it all. I haven't read any of his stuff so I don't know if his good humor is evident in his writing but I'll take your word for it. The only thing I can think of is that it is easier to seem happy on the set of a movie about himself than he might have really been at the times that Giamatti was portraying him. I don't know...

I see your point about "My Architect" but I really liked the mixing of the soul searching of the son and the history lesson of the dad's art. He admits at the beginning that the movie is more about his search to find out about his dad than anything else, doesn't he? Maybe he doesn't, but I felt like he did. Still, if you didn't like him at all, I could see why you would dislike the film. Have you seen "Sherman's March"?

As always, I loved reading your thoughts.

Jeremy,

Um, muses... okay.

You should see "Monkey Shines" if you like scary monkeys.

Are you excited for the remake of "Dawn of the Dead"? I think we know who can't wait for the opening.

Your "Mighty Wind" review was dead-on except I liked the Fred Willard stuff. But you really nailed what bothered about the film. Nice job.

wow, son and daughter of stone groove both have final destination 2 listed as one of their favorites of the year! shocker! it really ain't a movie list without a contribution from amy.

Dan, that may be a good point about Pekar seeming giddy or amused because he's in a movie about himself. I didn't think of that possibility. His writing can be really depressing, and even when it's just neutrally reflective there isn't always humor in it. But there often is. I guess I still can't help thinking of Giamatti as Pig Vomit from the Howard Stern movie. Also, he was in Paycheck as Affleck's best friend, and I don't know which of them gave a worse performance. And that's saying a lot, because I happen to think Affleck is one of the worst actors of these modern times.

About My Architect, I just thought there was an excessive focus on the director himself. I think he could have made a personal movie, still appropriately called My Architect, about his dad, without asking his mom obnoxious questions about her relationship with Kahn, stuff that he probably should have discussed with her off camera instead, and hanging out with his half-sisters and talking about whether they were a family or not (even though they had all seen each other only once before). And I didn't need all the reactions of people saying "Wow, you're his son, that's great, etc." If he'd taken himself out of it more and focused on learning about his dad's life and making it interesting on its own merits to the audience, I would have liked it better. But I guess you enjoyed that personal touch. We're all entitled to our own preferences, I suppose.

Jim,

Good point about the obnoxiousness of the filmmaker of "My Architect." I guess I just liked the subject matter so much, I was willing to forgive him for a lot of grandstanding.

I have not seen that Ben Affleck movie or the Howard Stern movie. But Giamatti was great in "Duets." Huey!!!!

Nice job, Amy. No Sexmas tree this year?

I just got to the movie discussion page, so I apologize for being late. I have to say that I am completely blown away by Jim and Dan's complete 180 in 6 weeks. On January 15, this friendship was in such peril that Dan actually told Jim to leave our great country if he can't Toby Keith it. But by February 27, I'm watching the last scenes of a sappy, big budget studio film. Bravo!

dan: ichi the killer is amazing. i didnt know it came out in 2003. i went through a crazy miike phase, along with watching other japanese/kitch/horror films like versus and wild zero. i find it interesting that such films come from a society based on relatively strict social structures like respect and politeness. but yeah whenever i hang out with new people, i sometimes suggest watching ichi, its really great for first impressions . . .

I can't quite figger why so many of you guys fell for City of God. Sure it's watchable, but I found it about as hardcore and verite as a Dead End Kids film from the '30s (only sadly lacking Bogart or Cagney), when it's not aping Scorsese. If you want to see a truly relentless film about Brazilian street kids -- and one of the best movies of the last 25 years -- rent Pixote.

And while I like Raising Victor Vargas almost as much as Jim did, I'm gonna quarrel with his mean-spirited vs generous-spirited critique. Since like most New Yorkers I spend at least half of my waking hours despising the human race, I have no problem with misanthropic movies. It's a non-issue on an aesthetic level: Tim Burton's best 2 films are Mars Attacks! (mega-misanthropic) and Ed Wood (his sweetest). Whereas Big Fish was a cloying, insincere pile of saccharine shit.