less tolerance? only for the self-righteous whining of the majority
i wanted to touch on an exchange that transpired on Listmaker regarding the assertions by some that Christmas/Christians are under attack by the godless, politically correct liberals and that there is these days less tolerance for their beliefs. setting aside that anyone who claims that Christians in this country are in any way being persecuted on a large scale is lying outright, one of the comments made by an avowed Christian (a non-Republican who nonetheless felt attacked when people objected to getting a copy of the New Testament with their newspaper) got me to thinking:
"I am going to make a point of letting everyone know how proud I am to be a Christian and how happy I am that Jesus was born so that the world could be saved and how much He loves each and everyone one of us."
to me, this is exactly where the impasse in this country comes from. far too many people operate under the impression that Christianity is the national religion of America (or as some like to say, that America is a "Christian Nation"). the fact that the majority of this country is Christian does not mean we are a Christian Nation. just like the fact that the majority of this country is white does not make us an Aryan nation.
while you may be very happy and proud to have accepted Jesus as your savior and that He plays an important role in your everyday existence, if you insist on bellowing that to every passerby, you're going to start getting ignored at best and shouted down at worst. if it's that important to you that you can't spend time with friends or go out in public and not bring it up, then you need to find people with whom you can share that common interest. i'm sorry if you feel like you need to "save" every last person on earth but there are many of us who have had the opportunity to weigh our options and make what we feel is an informed decision to forgo evangelicism and live our lives as best we can in accordance with our own morals which may or may not coincide with yours and we don't need a constant barrage of moral and salvational grandstanding from the true believers. you need to accept that for the U.S.A. to function as a pluralistic society, there have to be certain places (i.e. our government and other public institutions) where no set of beliefs is allowed to run roughshod over others and that the fact that this means that there are times when promoting religious beliefs is inappropriate does not mean that you are being attacked. you're simply being treated like everyone else. and really, the whole proselytizing thing smacks of condescencion considering the history of Christian missions that set out to civilize the "savages" who in many cases had their own historic, well-defined spirituality that was caustically tossed aside.
i have my own spiritual beliefs, but personally put a lot of faith in the logic of mathematics and science and believe that we need to foster a society that is more open, more understanding, more peaceful, more equitable and less selfish. that's my decision based on a lifetime of experiences and i'm quite frankly sick and tired of people who are systematically attacking and persecuting my belief system because it happens to conflict with their assertion that the earth is only 6,000 years old or that bling is king. i will argue and fight for my beliefs but i will not feel persecuted simply because someone disagrees with me. i also know that there are occasions when airing my views is not appropriate and that people don't want to hear me constantly going on about what i believe.
something to think about: this holiday season, people in the U.S. spent about $220 billion dollars which is four times the GDP of Ecuador. if Christmas is under attack from anything, it's from the triumph of commercialism over spirituality something of which even the most pious among us is likely guilty. if the season was truly about Jesus, wouldn't most of that money have gone to help the poor or to the victims of the deadly earthquake/tidal wave? (figures from Gregg Easterbrook's TMQ column which somehow manages to be about football and a million other things all at once).
Comments
For the past 40 years, Charlie Brown and Linus have been railing against the commercialization of Jesus's birthday on the Peanuts Christmas special. Even though millions of people watch that program each year, it still seems that no one is listening to that message. From my experience, avowed Christians tend to be more materialistic than both people of other religions and nonreligious people, at least when it comes to Christmas present-exchanging (but also in other circumstances). Perhaps those Christians who are attacking the rest of us for somehow "ruining" Christmas are really just ashamed of their own consumerist whoredom, yet can't face the truth (kind of like how they can't face the truth that their religion is just as manmade and absurd and unbelievable as Greek mythology or the legend of Gilgamesh or the Heaven's Gate alien-based belief system).
Posted by: jim | December 28, 2004 10:31 PM
I do agree that people that are out to convert others that don't want to be converted can be part of the problem, but let's be thankful that the majority of religious Christians out there are not out there trying to force their beliefs on others. Unfortunately, the few are out there ruining it for the many.
And the people that do feel persecuted, I'm not sure it is an issue of lying as much as a skewed perception that our country is going down the tubes because of the lack of morality. I don't know.
I really don't know where all of this Christians are being attacked jargon is coming from especially at a time when the religious right is gaining more and more power by the month. If we were talking 1975 or something, than perhaps they would have a more solid argument.
Posted by: Dan | December 29, 2004 01:48 AM
Just to clarify, when I have talked about (some) Christians forcing their beliefs on others, here and in the Listmaker comments, I'm not talking about individuals discussing their religion in conversation with non-Christians. I'm talking about organized political groups of conservative Christians that fight to keep gay people from having equal rights and women from having the right to choose, and that keep attempting over and over again to insert prayer and other elements of religion into public schools and other government institutions. That's forcing your beliefs on everyone else. And as Dan points out, the recent election shows that they've been more and more successful at it.
Other than the annoyance of Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses knocking on people's doors--which admittedly was a problem where I grew up because it happened so frequently, but maybe isn't such a big deal everywhere--I don't think there's an epidemic of Christian people trying to convert their fellow citizens.
But there is no doubt that groups like Focus on the Family and the Christian Coalition are doing everything they can to turn this country into a theocracy. The society they want would be a mirror image of the Taliban. Different religion, similar result: women subjugated, gay people criminals, science discarded in favor of myths and superstitions, self-righteous demagoguery ruling the day.
Posted by: jim | December 29, 2004 08:09 AM
Dan, certainly the vast majority of Christians are not out actively recruiting and forcing beliefs on others. but our President is of the born-again, evangelical school of Christianity, and he plays to the "our lack of morality is ruining the country" crowd at every opportunity. so we're stuck in a position where if we push back harder we make it easier to sell the "Christianity is under attack!" argument, but if we don't push back enough, we make it easier for them to jam their agenda through the government.
Posted by: jamie | December 29, 2004 11:12 AM
I can understand how you would think that preaching to others can be condescending because sometimes Christians don't use their common sense on sharing a message of love.
I think you and others misunderstood, I will not be going into my workplace ,standing on some pedestal and shouting the Gospel. BUT I will not holdback from sharing when ASKED.
I can also understand how offended some of our beliefs may be to others when the message is being relayed as damnation and not as a source of comfort.
Maybe this will help- Imagine if someone told you they had the secret to happiness and eternal life ( as silly and as illogical as it may sound). wouldn't you want to share it with others. Those who you feel are in need of some peace or happiness or others who need a miracle and some faith. I would imagine it being selfish of anyone to keep that to themselves.
I am not saying it wouldn't sound condescending if it were presented again in a holier than thou manner.
I find that seeking God helps me. If someone ask what helps me , THEN I will share .
Anybody who knows me knows what I am talking about.
As with all things you yearn to talk to people who have a common interest , I would think.
I also have an interest in Sci-fi,comedy and crocheting and love to share those interest with others.
In retrospect "The persecution" might have been overstating but it does occur not in the magnitude of other countries because as you said this is what some would call a Christian Nation"
People who attack and persecute your belief system are wrong. I nor anyone else can FORCE you to believe in something.
I don't know if I'm making any sense but I know this much is true perhaps shouting it from the mountain tops is not the way God would want some of us to share. Perhaps it is living the life and yes, stopping our whining and reaching out to others.
I am thankful for all the blogs and comments because it helps me to reflect on my spirituality and how other people might be taken aback or offended by it.
Balls in your court
Let the discussion continue
Posted by: Debbie | December 29, 2004 06:22 PM
Debbie, i certainly understand where you're coming from on that. i was using your words as a jumping off point for the larger point i was trying to make not to paint you as someone who would do such things. certainly religions of all stripes bring comfort to people the world over (some might say this is part of the problem with religion, "opiate of the masses" and all that, but that's another debate) and i would not seek to deny anybody that comfort. and i understand the wanting to share it with other people, because as you said, how could you not want to let everyone it. but again, there's a fine line between wanting to share your faith with others and using it to condemn them and to disregard their individual beliefs. atheists, agnostics, et. al. are guilty of this as well which i think is where much of the "they're attacking us" mentality comes from. as usual, it seems like racial, religious and political harmony will all be eluding us in the coming year. pity.
Posted by: jamie | December 30, 2004 10:41 AM